Women Rockers Waiting for Payoff

If you dream it, you can become it. Follow your heart. Do what you love and the money will follow. These Hallmark-esque words may inspire the heart, but they don't exactly help pay the rent. Just ask any female rock musician who has spent years scrounging, sacrificing, and basically doing whatever it takes to achieve her dreams of grandeur, only to find there isn't always a payoff at the end. The quest for the big payoff, and whether or not it's all worth it, is the subject of "Payoff," the debut documentary by writer, director, producer, and editor Kaylyn Thornal.

A member of a rock band herself, Thornal spent three years shooting various local female rock musicians in their 30s, including Jen Trynin, Laurie Geltman, and Juliana Nash of the group Talking to Animals; Kay Hanley of Letters to Cleo; Thalia Zedek of Come; as well as Jules Verdone, Merrie Amsterburg, and other female artists. The documentary combines powerful live performances with interviews of the women talking about the challenges of succeeding in a male-dominated industry, facing the crossroads of youth and middle age, making ends meet, and living up to personal and societal expectations.

I recently spoke with Kaylyn Thornal about "Payoff" while she was on Cape Cod, the location of her follow-up documentary.

HM: Like the music industry, making it in the video and film biz isn't exactly easy. How did you get break in?

THORNAL: My first experience with film was when I was little girl growing up in Waco, TX. I picked up my dad's 8mm camera and started making animated films. Years later in college, I became interested in writing, and majored in English and journalism. My professors praised my story structure and encouraged me to write screenplays, but I ultimately saw myself as being a journalist.
     Right after college, I attended McNeese University's MFS writing program in Louisiana. This time, my goal was to become a novelist, taking inspiration from brilliant authors like William Faulkner and John Irving. But after a year, I became disillusioned with the program and moved with a friend to Maui, where I wrote a dramatic screenplay. Although Maui was an exotic and peaceful place to write, I found myself craving the prolific social and intellectual stimulation of the big city. So I moved to Boston, where I started writing screenplays again and waited tables to pay the bills.
     Then came that fateful night when I went on a boat cruise with a friend.
     Letters to Cleo was playing, and I met a guy who was a roommate of the band's lead singer, Kay Henley. He introduced me to Kay, who ultimately encouraged me to pursue my screenwriting dreams and to stay in Boston, as opposed to heading out to L.A., where I would be a small fish in a big fish tank. Through my exposure to Kay, and by immersing myself in the local club music scene, the idea for "Payoff" blossomed. In 1994, I set out with my camera and didn't stop shooting until 1997.

HM: What is it that drew you to these women?

THORNAL: I was intrigued by what kept them going night after night, year after year, despite the slim odds of making it in such a competitive industry. Basically, their lives consisted of playing gigs until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, going home to catch a few hours of sleep, then putting on their happy faces and going to their day jobs. It's an exhausting cycle in which they're constantly questioning whether or not it's all worth it.

HM: What do the female musicians featured in "Payoff" have in common?

THORNAL: All of the women are trained musicians, and music has been their lives. Jen Trynin, for instance, has been playing since she was ten and is a graduate of Oberlin, and Juliana Nash is a graduate of the New England Conservatory of Music. All of them were also 30 years old when I started shooting, and were experiencing the ups and downs of a career in music. Jen had just scored a huge record deal, and Laurie Geltman was on a long steady rise, while Juliana was stuck in a pattern of getting signed and dropped, signed and dropped.

HM: How did you get to know your subject matter?

THORNAL: I conducted one-on-one interviews. I also filmed and taped them doing everything from going to recording studios, performing at clubs in Boston and New York, and doing errands, like bringing their CDs to Tower Records.

HM: Tell us about some of the challenges these women faced.

THORNAL: All of them were at a turning point in their lives. They were constantly asking themselves, Where am I going? When is it time to give up? How much longer will I have to live this kind of lifestyle? What is it I'm looking for? And because they were in their 30s, they had a subconscious time clock, not just regarding kids and family, but also around the pressure to succeed.

HM: How are women rockers perceived in the music industry?

THORNAL: Back when I was in the shooting stages, I interviewed Carter Allen, a DJ for Boston's WBCN radio station. He explained that his listening audience consisted of males, aged 18 to 24. So the goal was to make sure the music never sounded soft, that it always had an edge. What this meant was that if 20 songs were played over the course of his show, only two could be by female artists. And in '96, the rule was to never play two female artists back to back. Fortunately, with the rising popularity of female bands, I think this is changing.

HM: What kind of equipment did you use?

THORNAL: A combination of mostly digital video and Hi 8 with some Super 8 and 16mm. I chose digital video because it's so affordable, and the quality is fantastic. In the end, I had over 60 hours of footage to go through, which I co-edited on an AVID.

HM: How did you finance "Payoff"?

THORNAL: Basically out of my own pocket and with a few small donations. During the day, I would work full-time at Tufts University, then venture out at night to clubs with my camera. Again, I kept the costs down by using mostly digital video. I definitely think that's where the industry is headed. In fact, I was at the Sundance Festival recently, and every day there was a lecture on digital video.

HM: Where have audiences been able to see "Payoff," and how have they responded?

THORNAL: It premiered at the 1998 Festival of Women's Cinema in Wellesley. It also screened at the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston at the end of February, and will be shown again at Berklee College of Music this April.
    As far as audience reaction, some people have been pissed off by it, maybe because the story has no real ending. But for the most part, people have praised the way the film is both bittersweet and humorous at the same time.

HM: Is there another Kaylyn Thornal documentary in the works?

THORNAL: Right now I'm on Cape Cod, working on a documentary about Harry Holl, a lifelong sculptor/potter who is a living legend on the Cape. The documentary focuses on his life as an artist, including the years he went to school with Andy Warhol, and his unique philosophies. He truly believes if you can find your inner center, you can do anything.

HM: How can people get their hands on a copy of "Payoff"?

THORNAL: Email me at kaylyn19@hotmail.com, and I may be able to provide a video copy in the near future. They can also try my production company, Parachute Dream Productions, at Stratobuzz@aol.com